UPDATE. Felipe with a pair. FIA slaps Ricciardo again.

"getchapopcorn" (getchapopcorn) 03/30/2014 at 20:06 • Filed to: f1

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**Spoilers**

I'm of the opinion that "hold station" team orders are to be unquestioned when given and that "let pass" orders are to be followed as well but that the latter have no place in the waning laps of a race. A caveat being that if and when they're giving in the last few laps that it be understood as "don't do anything stupid to stay in front." Massa earned the place he was in and at no time over zealously enforced his line or ran out Bottas. What I saw from Massa was a simple refusal to pull over and let Bottas by; however, he certainly left the door open in a lot of places where it would have otherwise been shut and put the onus on Bottas to pass him if he were quicker. That is to say, it seemed that Massa gave Bottas every opportunity for him to put a pass on if he did have the pace. I'm 100% ok with the way Massa played out the last 5ish laps and think that's they way it should be run.

Big, BIG props to Bottas for the gentlemanly way he handled the situation after the race, without any anger or animosity. He basically said that he thought Massa should have obeyed, that he thought he could have caught Jenson but passing him would have been another thing, but that they all just need needed to sit down and talk as a team before he said anything else. I'm becoming a bigger and bigger Bottas fan every day since last year's USGP when he put on one of the best !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! of last season.

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In other news, the FIA has smacked Ricciardo in the face with a 10-place grid drop in Bahrain for an unsafe pit release. I'm really conflicted when it comes to these situations, especially when the unsafe release involves the driving going out into the way of another car; driver has some control over the situation when it comes to that. Here (wheel left unattached for those who didn't watch) I think its absolutely ridiculous to penalize Riccardo, especially since Riccardo stopped radioed the team within a few meters to tell them about the problem. It seems that a deduction of constructor points would be a better way to handle the issue.

UPDATE: Ricciardo still smiling.

Waka waka.

Madest thou loook.

/endeth the trick

davedave1111 > getchapopcorn 03/30/2014 at 11:23

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I wasn't really concentrating by the end. Was there any chance of Bottas catching someone else after passing Massa? If there was, then clearly team orders should have full force. Otherwise, it's a question of whether the team is entitled to try and make sure one driver gets as many points as possible. I'd say they are, and it's just the nature of the sport that sometimes the non-main driver must move over for the good of the team.

As for the unsafe release, deducting constructors' points only would basically give Caterham and Marussia free reign to have as many unsafe releases as they like. Although come to think of it, grid-penalties have much the same effect anyway.

Possibly the solution is to have much harsher penalties for unsafe releases - disqualification, perhaps - so that teams simply won't ever take the risk of incurring them.

getchapopcorn > davedave1111 03/30/2014 at 11:34

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I think you need to have a case-by-case review and a larger amount of discretion in what punishments are handed out. I don't see grid penalty or deduction of constructor points for continued back markers to be at all effective (though they rarely have these problems). It would seem that monetary fines would be more apt in those situations.

quarterlifecrisis > getchapopcorn 03/30/2014 at 12:12

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I really think the FIA should look at constructor's points being deducted as adequate punishment for the Red Bull incidents. I'm no Red Bull fan, but Ricciardo is an incredibly likable guy, and to see him beat down by things that he was unaware of and were out of his control is frustrating.

davedave1111 > getchapopcorn 03/30/2014 at 12:22

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Isn't that pretty much how it is now? The stewards have quite a lot of discretion in the punishments, as far as I know.

I think grid penalties are lower penalties than points deductions, because if you have a good car and good strategy you can make up for them.

McMike > getchapopcorn 03/30/2014 at 12:41

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I was on the fence for the 10 second stop-and-go for Riccardo. Like you said, they caught it right away, he didn't enter the circuit, and the wheel never came off, and the pushed him back to the box and fixed it.

I'm not going to complain, since rules are rules.. It just ads insult to injury, but that's irrelevant.

But a grid penalty in addition to the 10 second stop-n-go? Jesus Christ, Charlie. Pick one.

If you've ever been curious what it's going to take to get DR to stop smiling, the FIA is working on it.

antmicmkii > getchapopcorn 03/30/2014 at 12:42

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What I don't get I'd that Ricciardo was penalized during the race, he was given a 5 second stop and go, how could they go and penelize him again? Unless of course he retired before he got to serve his penalty, which I think may be the case. If so than he needs to be penelized for not competing stop and go, unfortunately.

Also I think Massa was holding up Bottas earlier in the race and they told Bottas to hold station.

Victorious Secret > getchapopcorn 03/30/2014 at 12:49

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Ferrari International Assistance knows they can't touch Vettel (because Red Bull would just buy Ferrari, the FIA, and Bernie's Dog) so they go after DR and ruin a young drivers ambitions with ass backwards judgements.

Constructor points would make more sense to lop off, or a longer penalty. But a stop and go AND 10 spot hit?

Assclowns.

getchapopcorn > davedave1111 03/30/2014 at 13:06

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I would agree, but I still feel in this specific instance that constructor points, and solely constructor points, as opposed to starting gird drop would have been a more apt penalty. I don't think that a grid drop is penalty enough for the team when a team has a good car and a good driver, and I don't feel these instances the driver should be held out to dry along with it. Let the driver drive and accumulate his points in the WDC, but allow no points (or some discounted proportion of points) to the constructor in the WCC, post-race time penalty (pitlane delta plus whatever the stop may be) only as it relates to WCC points, etc. Had Riccardo entered the track despite having evidence of loose wheel or had his unsafe release been one involving another car/person in the pit lane then I am 100% ok with a grid penalty or an in-race stop-and-go. At the end of the day, I'm not bitching and moaning or decrying a lack of fairness or any kind of crap like that —nothing pisses me off more than how everyone just expects everything to be 'fair' these days — I'm just merely expressing an opinion.

On the by-and-by, does the FIA have the ability to order in race stop-and-goes where the team isn't allowed to do in-stop work? Obviously, now, on smaller infractions the driver can serve certain stop-and-goes while doing work in the same stop, Mag had this. Are all S&Gs like this now?

Soloburrito > getchapopcorn 03/30/2014 at 15:27

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Magnussen penalty was Bs.

The grid spot penalty on Ricciardo is Bs too. They already penalized him during the race! I agreed with that first penalty, but this is ridiculous.

davedave1111 > getchapopcorn 03/30/2014 at 18:39

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You're basically saying that the driver shouldn't be penalised for a team error? I can see your point.

"On the by-and-by, does the FIA have the ability to order in race stop-and-goes where the team isn't allowed to do in-stop work? "

I've only heard about it from commentary, but if I understand correctly they can now order a stop-go penalty which can be served during a pit-stop, although no work can be done during the penalty period - that is, work can be done during the pit-stop, but then everyone has to leave the car alone for the penalty period before it can drive off.

promoted by the color red > getchapopcorn 03/30/2014 at 21:02

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Daniel Riccardo is the Butters of F1

getchapopcorn > promoted by the color red 03/30/2014 at 21:05

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lu lu lu I've got some apples.

Destructive Tester > quarterlifecrisis 03/30/2014 at 21:10

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While I have really come to like Riccardo, I could (sort of) understand the logic behind his DQ in Australia because his placing was a possible result of an illegal fuel flow rate. As far as illegal pit releases, I think the TEAM should lose all points earned in the race and the driver in question should be left alone. When a car is released with a lose wheel the driver's race is typically over anyway, if they manage to still earn any driver's points afterwards they've been well-earned...